Delvings SUCK on melee characters!

[ThreeLeggedCow]

Dear SSG,

Does anyone on your dev staff, actually PLAY a melee character? Cause from the experiences of anyone who ever plays melee, its PAINFULLY obvious that none of you do.

Lets just talk about the absolute torrent of bad game design that goes into, not just delvings, but content in general in this game.

1. Puddles of BS that saps your health and resources? Check
2. Puddles of BS that slows and stuns you? Check
3. Puddles of "fill the whole bloody room with fire that you cant purge and does % health damage and ignores mits?" Check.
4. Anti melee cleave mechanics? Check
5. Short melee range on most melee toons apart from Guardian so that when the tank is kiting stuff you cant actually hit anything while chasing it? Check
6. Accidental aggro of additional mob packs because your melee and you have to dodge all the above mentioned BS? Check
7. You eat EVERY stun, EVERY knockback, EVERY punt, EVER no matter how good of a player you are and how raid aware you are? Check.
8. Have to purge half a dozen debuffs every 5 seconds, only for them to be instantly reapplied regardless of whether you have resistance rating or not? Check
9. COMPLETELY USELESS avoidance stats on tanks that do absolutely NOTHING to avoid damage on certain bosses and the above mentions puddles of BS? Check
10. Cant really have multiple melee dps in 3 and 6 mans due to blatant anti melee mechanics? Check (see apothecary final boss for example)
11. Aura that debuffs your offensive capabilities that ranged toons dont have to deal with? Check.

My current raid geared captain, guard and bear struggle to do t7-10 with certain malices, wheras my recently valarred mini, rk and range warden can do t12 like is a cakewalk on nearly any malice rotation except the "puddles of fire that fill the whole room and you cant even see them half the bloody time" BS.

WHY? Why does it feel like whenever I am playing a melee character, I am feeling like I am playing an inferior character? I know if I do content on my melee toons, I will struggle or deal with so much annoyance whereas my range toons can literally smash their faces into the keyboard and clear content?

WHY?

[Plidak]

Dear SSG,

Does anyone on your dev staff, actually PLAY a melee character? Cause from the experiences of anyone who ever plays melee, its PAINFULLY obvious that none of you do.

Lets just talk about the absolute torrent of bad game design that goes into, not just delvings, but content in general in this game.

1. Puddles of BS that saps your health and resources? Check
2. Puddles of BS that slows and stuns you? Check
3. Puddles of "fill the whole bloody room with fire that you cant purge and does % health damage and ignores mits?" Check.
4. Anti melee cleave mechanics? Check
5. Short melee range on most melee toons apart from Guardian so that when the tank is kiting stuff you cant actually hit anything while chasing it? Check
6. Accidental aggro of additional mob packs because your melee and you have to dodge all the above mentioned BS? Check
7. You eat EVERY stun, EVERY knockback, EVERY punt, EVER no matter how good of a player you are and how raid aware you are? Check.
8. Have to purge half a dozen debuffs every 5 seconds, only for them to be instantly reapplied regardless of whether you have resistance rating or not? Check
9. COMPLETELY USELESS avoidance stats on tanks that do absolutely NOTHING to avoid damage on certain bosses and the above mentions puddles of BS? Check
10. Cant really have multiple melee dps in 3 and 6 mans due to blatant anti melee mechanics? Check (see apothecary final boss for example)
11. Aura that debuffs your offensive capabilities that ranged toons dont have to deal with? Check.

My current raid geared captain, guard and bear struggle to do t7-10 with certain malices, wheras my recently valarred mini, rk and range warden can do t12 like is a cakewalk on nearly any malice rotation except the "puddles of fire that fill the whole room and you cant even see them half the bloody time" BS.

WHY? Why does it feel like whenever I am playing a melee character, I am feeling like I am playing an inferior character? I know if I do content on my melee toons, I will struggle or deal with so much annoyance whereas my range toons can literally smash their faces into the keyboard and clear content?

WHY?

Talking from experience. Dont waste your breath on forum. Wont change thing /about delvings atleast.
You rly ask them do they play mele ? I dont think they play at all m8, delvings even less. Im sure they dont play their game.
Whatever...
So up to t7 your class doesnt matter that much. Its easily doable if you have SOME gear. If you have SOME gear and skills is ez to do to t10.
From t10 to t12 is better to do in grp. And yes, ranged classes have upperhand ofc.
Which is your server btw ? If you are on Evernight we can par and do some smooth t12 /daily/ your gear doesnt matter. Just dont pull before i do

[Papou_sous_la_montagne]

Dear SSG,

Does anyone on your dev staff, actually PLAY a melee character? Cause from the experiences of anyone who ever plays melee, its PAINFULLY obvious that none of you do.

Lets just talk about the absolute torrent of bad game design that goes into, not just delvings, but content in general in this game.

1. Puddles of BS that saps your health and resources? Check
2. Puddles of BS that slows and stuns you? Check
3. Puddles of "fill the whole bloody room with fire that you cant purge and does % health damage and ignores mits?" Check.
4. Anti melee cleave mechanics? Check
5. Short melee range on most melee toons apart from Guardian so that when the tank is kiting stuff you cant actually hit anything while chasing it? Check
6. Accidental aggro of additional mob packs because your melee and you have to dodge all the above mentioned BS? Check
7. You eat EVERY stun, EVERY knockback, EVERY punt, EVER no matter how good of a player you are and how raid aware you are? Check.
8. Have to purge half a dozen debuffs every 5 seconds, only for them to be instantly reapplied regardless of whether you have resistance rating or not? Check
9. COMPLETELY USELESS avoidance stats on tanks that do absolutely NOTHING to avoid damage on certain bosses and the above mentions puddles of BS? Check
10. Cant really have multiple melee dps in 3 and 6 mans due to blatant anti melee mechanics? Check (see apothecary final boss for example)
11. Aura that debuffs your offensive capabilities that ranged toons dont have to deal with? Check.

My current raid geared captain, guard and bear struggle to do t7-10 with certain malices, wheras my recently valarred mini, rk and range warden can do t12 like is a cakewalk on nearly any malice rotation except the "puddles of fire that fill the whole room and you cant even see them half the bloody time" BS.

WHY? Why does it feel like whenever I am playing a melee character, I am feeling like I am playing an inferior character? I know if I do content on my melee toons, I will struggle or deal with so much annoyance whereas my range toons can literally smash their faces into the keyboard and clear content?

WHY?

Hello

I play melee character (champ) and this doesn't sucks like you said. But i admit this is more painfull than some class. BUT....

You can play with another friend and / or use another skill tree.

I play my champ full geared tank with blue skill tree with friend (dps) in t12 and i can't die...really.

And i am sure i can soloting some T12 delving.

[Plidak]

Hello

I play melee character (champ) and this doesn't sucks like you said. But i admit this is more painfull than some class. BUT....

You can play with another friend and / or use another skill tree.

I play my champ full geared tank with blue skill tree with friend (dps) in t12 and i can't die...really.

And i am sure i can soloting some T12 delving.

As tank you can solo all but 1. And even this one can be soloed with 1000 deaths.
So yea, you can solo, but doesnt worth the time. Classes he mention / cpt, bear, guard/ are slow at killing so he cant cheese the mechanic and have bad experience above t7. With champ you dont have such plroblems.

[Papou_sous_la_montagne]

As tank you can solo all but 1. And even this one can be soloed with 1000 deaths.
So yea, you can solo, but doesnt worth the time. Classes he mention / cpt, bear, guard/ are slow at killing so he cant cheese the mechanic and have bad experience above t7. With champ you dont have such plroblems.

My point isn't solo or not solo. Please...

[DoRonRon]

Much must be down to access to essence slots. So many and you get to max crit and mastery, get some delving gear and you get to up the mits a bit, but having the many more slots you get from raiding jewels then you get to stack some morale and have those raid level mits to boot.

With the odd boss at 4 mill morale and a 45% shadow reflect my less than a mill morale isn't going to stack up. Mind you it's more of a challenge to do without all those advantages and the accomplishment that much better. But this flipping a coin to find out if it's doable with good tactics or impossible without numerous defeats ain't fun at all.

[ThreeLeggedCow]

Talking from experience. Dont waste your breath on forum. Wont change thing /about delvings atleast.
You rly ask them do they play mele ? I dont think they play at all m8, delvings even less. Im sure they dont play their game.
Whatever...
So up to t7 your class doesnt matter that much. Its easily doable if you have SOME gear. If you have SOME gear and skills is ez to do to t10.
From t10 to t12 is better to do in grp. And yes, ranged classes have upperhand ofc.
Which is your server btw ? If you are on Evernight we can par and do some smooth t12 /daily/ your gear doesnt matter. Just dont pull before i do

I want to make it clear I can complete the content, I have done solo t10+ on all my characters but it is a night and day difference between the two. My range toons just breeze, and I really do mean, breeze through it. Can even put a podcast on and just mindlessly do it. Range toons with range tracery can kill anything before it gets close and avoid half the other mechanics, hahaha, mechanics, I mean lazy ### game design of puddle, puddle, puddle, puddle, debuff, debuff, debuff, debuff.

Its just lazy design. I pretty much recommend to friends dont even bother doing delvings solo and dont waste your time on melee. Doing these delvings on melee takes almost twice as long cause you spend half the damn time purging debuffs that are immediatly reapplied and getting out of stupid puddles.

[ThreeLeggedCow]

Hello

I play melee character (champ) and this doesn't sucks like you said. But i admit this is more painfull than some class. BUT....

You can play with another friend and / or use another skill tree.

I play my champ full geared tank with blue skill tree with friend (dps) in t12 and i can't die...really.

And i am sure i can soloting some T12 delving.

No one cares. My guard can do t12 too, whats your point? Takes him ages to do it but he can. Its not really difficult its just really lazy game design. NO, half a dozen puddles of BS and debuffs is NOT difficulty.

[Papou_sous_la_montagne]

No one cares. My guard can do t12 too, whats your point? Takes him ages to do it but he can. Its not really difficult its just really lazy game design. NO, half a dozen puddles of BS and debuffs is NOT difficulty.

[forgotonoldie]

Dear SSG,

Does anyone on your dev staff, actually PLAY a melee character? Cause from the experiences of anyone who ever plays melee, its PAINFULLY obvious that none of you do.

Lets just talk about the absolute torrent of bad game design that goes into, not just delvings, but content in general in this game.

1. Puddles of BS that saps your health and resources? Check
2. Puddles of BS that slows and stuns you? Check
3. Puddles of "fill the whole bloody room with fire that you cant purge and does % health damage and ignores mits?" Check.
4. Anti melee cleave mechanics? Check
5. Short melee range on most melee toons apart from Guardian so that when the tank is kiting stuff you cant actually hit anything while chasing it? Check
6. Accidental aggro of additional mob packs because your melee and you have to dodge all the above mentioned BS? Check
7. You eat EVERY stun, EVERY knockback, EVERY punt, EVER no matter how good of a player you are and how raid aware you are? Check.
8. Have to purge half a dozen debuffs every 5 seconds, only for them to be instantly reapplied regardless of whether you have resistance rating or not? Check
9. COMPLETELY USELESS avoidance stats on tanks that do absolutely NOTHING to avoid damage on certain bosses and the above mentions puddles of BS? Check
10. Cant really have multiple melee dps in 3 and 6 mans due to blatant anti melee mechanics? Check (see apothecary final boss for example)
11. Aura that debuffs your offensive capabilities that ranged toons dont have to deal with? Check.

My current raid geared captain, guard and bear struggle to do t7-10 with certain malices, wheras my recently valarred mini, rk and range warden can do t12 like is a cakewalk on nearly any malice rotation except the "puddles of fire that fill the whole room and you cant even see them half the bloody time" BS.

WHY? Why does it feel like whenever I am playing a melee character, I am feeling like I am playing an inferior character? I know if I do content on my melee toons, I will struggle or deal with so much annoyance whereas my range toons can literally smash their faces into the keyboard and clear content?

WHY?

This is pretty much how any of the large MMO's work...

[DoRonRon]

No one cares. My guard can do t12 too, whats your point? Takes him ages to do it but he can. Its not really difficult its just really lazy game design. NO, half a dozen puddles of BS and debuffs is NOT difficulty.

Is your guard set up as raid main tank? Don't have such gear on my guard...

If each puddle is doing more damage on my less morale/mit stacked guy it's going to be that much worse. With a 45% reflect many of my skills are suicide buttons, am I to take in a butter knife instead? Can't even make an LI with no star-lits now either.

I'm trying to set the level to where there isn't the need for a radical investment in another build set up with LIs to match. Just some tweaks. But why bother when I can call in an alt account char to solo it for my melee chars on a slightly lesser tier and get them their might gear set.

Once that's complete even the teal drops become a disappointing 15 writs reward until there's an item level increase and it all kicks off again. Maybe I'll valar a mini on the alt account in the mean time and be even better prepared to counter the poor melee provision of the game.

[Plidak]

My point isn't solo or not solo. Please...

Im sure the guy means solo experience.
So no please, please ....
Because if we speak for duo/trio delvings, brawler is the best dps you can go with. Better than the META ranged hunt/rk
Lots of bursty aoe. More than decent ST, and almost no cd aoe stun.
So ye, im sure he missed to add SOLO in title, but reading his comment you can tell he 100% mean solo exp.

I want to make it clear I can complete the content

Im sure you can. I was there too. Creating such thread, with almost mirroring what you say here.
Only to get " L2P" "Get gud" or "i see a skill issue" here, from ppl who never played guard or cpt. Or even from ppl who never played delvings at all.
Delvings got kinda ""nerfed" since then. But this is t9 and bellow content. T10-12 is a hell for the clsses you mention.

[ThreeLeggedCow]

Is your guard set up as raid main tank? Don't have such gear on my guard...

If each puddle is doing more damage on my less morale/mit stacked guy it's going to be that much worse. With a 45% reflect many of my skills are suicide buttons, am I to take in a butter knife instead? Can't even make an LI with no star-lits now either.

I'm trying to set the level to where there isn't the need for a radical investment in another build set up with LIs to match. Just some tweaks. But why bother when I can call in an alt account char to solo it for my melee chars on a slightly lesser tier and get them their might gear set.

Once that's complete even the teal drops become a disappointing 15 writs reward until there's an item level increase and it all kicks off again. Maybe I'll valar a mini on the alt account in the mean time and be even better prepared to counter the poor melee provision of the game.

Honestly just make a redline mini and faceroll, its so much easier its insane.

[ThreeLeggedCow]

Im sure the guy means solo experience.
So no please, please ....
Because if we speak for duo/trio delvings, brawler is the best dps you can go with. Better than the META ranged hunt/rk
Lots of bursty aoe. More than decent ST, and almost no cd aoe stun.
So ye, im sure he missed to add SOLO in title, but reading his comment you can tell he 100% mean solo exp.





Im sure you can. I was there too. Creating such thread, with almost mirroring what you say here.
Only to get " L2P" "Get gud" or "i see a skill issue" here, from ppl who never played guard or cpt. Or even from ppl who never played delvings at all.
Delvings got kinda ""nerfed" since then. But this is t9 and bellow content. T10-12 is a hell for the clsses you mention.

The "git gud" and "l2p" people are the ones who play ranged toons like hunter, mini and RK and dont have to deal with 50% of the actual delving mechanics.

[Mithithil]

Actually I'd simply plead "can we have a whole level gaining expansion with a good instance cliuster and raid with no flippin' puddles at all anywhere ever the mecanic has been sorely overused and very much adversely affects specific classes.

[DoRonRon]

Honestly just make a redline mini and faceroll, its so much easier its insane.

I suppose many of us have gotten used to the older missions where we've had to plot our route through to an objective whilst the game took it's own time to render the mobs so even those Delvings where the mobs are all invisible will become easier in time. Perhaps the purchase of tracking tomes is the idea behind such mechanics? Like the free hope from hobbit presents they were for throwing out to save a slot or two storage until an actual use for them was created.

I'd agree that mini for me is way more suited to many of the scenarios but still that all changes when a technique used at one tier goes out the window with a tier up. Perhaps I need to do more T12s and the 8 to 10 difficulties become obsolete; reflect, perception and corruption removal? I'm still a n00b at these mind you. Ofc we have the advantage of a recent class overhaul but I dislike having to tone down damage after being gifted the "nuke" for all other gameplay.

The 45% reflect seems to imply it's vitality stacking that's once again the easy out. Maybe it is face roll when you have a load more than 17/21 essence slots on your gear? How many do you have? For me it's like the majority of my skills are auto defeat if I was to use them unless I'm happy to clear with a defeat (or two) each pull.

[ThreeLeggedCow]

I suppose many of us have gotten used to the older missions where we've had to plot our route through to an objective whilst the game took it's own time to render the mobs so even those Delvings where the mobs are all invisible will become easier in time. Perhaps the purchase of tracking tomes is the idea behind such mechanics? Like the free hope from hobbit presents they were for throwing out to save a slot or two storage until an actual use for them was created.

I'd agree that mini for me is way more suited to many of the scenarios but still that all changes when a technique used at one tier goes out the window with a tier up. Perhaps I need to do more T12s and the 8 to 10 difficulties become obsolete; reflect, perception and corruption removal? I'm still a n00b at these mind you. Ofc we have the advantage of a recent class overhaul but I dislike having to tone down damage after being gifted the "nuke" for all other gameplay.

The 45% reflect seems to imply it's vitality stacking that's once again the easy out. Maybe it is face roll when you have a load more than 17/21 essence slots on your gear? How many do you have? For me it's like the majority of my skills are auto defeat if I was to use them unless I'm happy to clear with a defeat (or two) each pull.

I'm sitting at 2mill health with capped t5 mits and pretty much get shredded cause nearly all the dots are % health based or ignore resistance and mits. I run with a hunter or a mini friend on my guard now and do t12's.

[ThreeLeggedCow]

Actually I'd simply plead "can we have a whole level gaining expansion with a good instance cliuster and raid with no flippin' puddles at all anywhere ever the mecanic has been sorely overused and very much adversely affects specific classes.

I love how its taken this long for SSG to recognise this. In the livestream a few days ago Orion FINALLY admitted that maybe, they use to many puddles in their instances. Its only taken him 6+ YEARS to recognise this!

[savetheroadtodoriath]

You had me at 'Delving suck'.

They are not content, they are a cheap substitute to keep people on the hamster wheel.

[WorrBinpike]

Also with the change in the Patch today Delving items are pretty much "old" now.

Newly acquired Adventurer's lootbox gear, for level 140 characters, will now scale to item level 478 - 480.

[DoRonRon]

I'm sitting at 2mill health with capped t5 mits and pretty much get shredded cause nearly all the dots are % health based or ignore resistance and mits. I run with a hunter or a mini friend on my guard now and do t12's.

My team are all under a million morale, barely at landscape mit cap (now each has their Delvings gear) because SSG implied it was the means we are to go about preparing for "group" play. I know my choice not to group puts a limit on essence slot availability but the head, shoulder, gloves and chest pieces are an additional slot each over ember boxes. Still stuck with a single slot on all the jewels and with neck and cloak grind off the radar, thankfully.

Do you not get reflect mechanics on T12? I run with a hunter, just my alt account hunter dual boxing so largely still solo so it's traps, slows, roots, dots/hots and fear and the odd daze and a deal of kiting and quite some challenge. Have 3 melee chars requiring this work around though so I have to drop fellow before the finale if all need the help. If I can't figure it out I'll quit before being carried through them though. Ideally I should pair up the mini and hunter and forget the others I play.

They seem to be designed by someone with intimate knowledge of the mini skills set and nuance of their play. And ignorance of how very far away every other class is from them. I, however, suspect it's just fallen into the competent mini's lap without knowing.

[ThreeLeggedCow]

You had me at 'Delving suck'.

They are not content, they are a cheap substitute to keep people on the hamster wheel.

I have to agree. And with today's patch buffing up Adventurer's gear we no longer have to do this dog#### excuse for "content".

[DoRonRon]

I have to agree. And with today's patch buffing up Adventurer's gear we no longer have to do this dog#### excuse for "content".

Wait for a Delving gear item level increase soon enough.

[Elmagor]

Wait for a Delving gear item level increase soon enough.

Already

[DoRonRon]

Already

D'Oh!

I swear they are tracking me for when I switch to a new set and switch around my essences.

Still smiling though

Can't say I saw it in the patch notes ofc.