Hobbits to Isengard - Q/A with Sapience notes on what was said

[frickinmuck]

495 is expensive for a character bound item.

Well, of course only you can decide what it's worth to you to stop or slow levelling, but to me it seems a reasonable and even cheap price for something that will be used frequently (or maybe even consistently) for that character throughout the course of its existence. It's cheaper than a vault space upgrade. Cheaper than a legacy.

[Silmelin]

495 TP is very very expensive for those with many characters. It would cost me almost 19000 TP for all my main characters

I'm hoping for an account wide version to be added someday

[SouthernBelle0927]

There already exists an XP disabler, and it's not expensive. I don't see any reason to add new items when one already exists for this very purpose.

I know. I have one. But not everyone wants a regular Stone of the Tortoise or considers 495TP inexpensive when you consider that it's a "per character" cost. I had to think long and hard before I shelled out the TP for mine, and only one character has it at the moment. However, that also meant that I parked my other main for the duration of the bonus XP weekend to avoid over-leveling the content, even though I wanted to continue the epic quest with her.

My idea was for a short-term one like the horse whistle in the new character gift boxes, that lasts for around 24 hours and is consumed on use. In fact, I suggested placing it in one of those gift boxes as a compromise for Beaniemooch's concern about being bombarded with "spam" during yet another in-game event. I happen to agree with that sentiment, thus the revised suggestion in response.

The problem with bonus XP events is that it takes a choice away from the player as to how fast he or she wants to advance toward level cap. I have a VIP subscription, which means I voluntarily accepted that I'd level faster for certain periods when I purchased the subscription. That was my choice--and I'm controlling that now with the disabler for reasons I mentioned earlier. Again, my choice. Bonus XP events are involuntary. While some players find them convenient, other players have said, stridently, that they don't like the increased leveling rate and resent having to buy an item to counteract an involuntary buff.

Sapience said in the Gladden livestream that players have indicated these events are popular. Perhaps they are. But they aren't popular with everyone or there wouldn't be half a dozen complaint threads popping up every time one of these events occurs. I'm just making a suggestion that perhaps might work as a compromise.

After all, we're constantly being bombarded with XP boosts of all kinds in lootboxes and hobbit presents--why not a short-term XP disabler that works in a similar fashion?

[Angadan]

495 TP is very very expensive for those with many characters. It would cost me almost 19000 TP for all my main characters

*breaks out some math* 19,000 divided by 495 is, carry the two, rounding off, inserting latitude and longitude ... you have about FORTY (40! four-tee!) "main" characters??!?! Wow! WOW!!!

If you play each of your MAIN characters only 3 hours in a whole week (that's about...oh dang, more math, this sucks, hang on...carry the 3, sine cosine...okay that's less than 30 minutes a day on each "main" toon), you're still playing for (DANGIT! Okay, hold on...factorial exponential add for entropy...) that means you're playing LOTRO 120 hours a week and sleeping/eating/doing other things that involve the term TMI only 48 hours a week or (frazzle razzle maths...) less than 7 hours a day!

You are one busy person, with 40 main toons.

[Crell_1]

After all, we're constantly being bombarded with XP boosts of all kinds in lootboxes and hobbit presents--why not a short-term XP disabler that works in a similar fashion?

It's not like the time-based toggles weren't originally made and tested, just switch the countdown timer for the buff to count down in real time instead of in 'used time'. (The item already counted down in real time, just not the buff at the time it was tested and sent back by the players for redesign)

I'd like to see the existing permanent ones turn up rarely in the lootboxes as well, but the timed based ones sound like a reasonable comprimise for these kinds of events. Put the time limited one in the store. Set a coupon for '1 free one per account' or something.

Who knows, maybe people will decide they want the permanent version after trying it out!

[Silmelin]

*breaks out some math* 19,000 divided by 495 is, carry the two, rounding off, inserting latitude and longitude ... you have about FORTY (40! four-tee!) "main" characters??!?! Wow! WOW!!!

If you play each of your MAIN characters only 3 hours in a whole week (that's about...oh dang, more math, this sucks, hang on...carry the 3, sine cosine...okay that's less than 30 minutes a day on each "main" toon), you're still playing for (DANGIT! Okay, hold on...factorial exponential add for entropy...) that means you're playing LOTRO 120 hours a week and sleeping/eating/doing other things that involve the term TMI only 48 hours a week or (frazzle razzle maths...) less than 7 hours a day!

You are one busy person, with 40 main toons.

No, not 40. Might want to redo that math And yes, I have many mains. Nothing wrong with that. I do have a few alts and temporary characters too but there's no reason to stop their exp so I didn't count them
Also, I'm not a machine. I'm a human being with likes and dislikes and my mood changes so one day I might feel like playing one character, the next day I might want to play another character I have no reason to play all characters exactly the same amount of time every single day in a set order, why would you even think that? XD

And I really hope you're not making fun of me for playing LOTRO for many many hours a day LOTRO is a way for me to get out and meet people and experience things, since it's hard for me to go out IRL due to health reasons.

[Angadan]

No, not 40. Might want to redo that math ... And I really hope you're not making fun of me for playing LOTRO for many many hours a day

Oh no, not making fun at all! Well, teasing a bit, but not about how much or little you play, rather about your use of the term "main" for something close to 40 toons (I just define "main character" a bit differently, is all). BTW, on the maths which you might have noticed I'm really good at! 19,000/495 = about 38 and a half, I just rounded to 40 to make all the follow-on head-scratching maths a bit easier. Hhehehe.

So...you actually have almost 38.4 main characters? Is that what you meant when you said I should redo?

[Silmelin]

• Why are there no hobbit LMs
  A lot of classes are restricted by race because they try to stick to what makes sense within the lore. However there has been discussion about opening the classes up more to other races. Nothing definite yet but it is being considered. A hobbit storyteller is a lot closer to a minstrel than a lore master. There’s a big difference between someone who tells a story, and someone who uses the old ways to produce weather effects and things of that nature like a lore master does.

I really wanted to play a Captain, but only want to play elves. I was forced to choose a rugged guy to get to play as a Captain, and that's fine, but please please please, if you ever let elves be Captains, please let us switch race! Pleeeeease? Don't leave me stranded without my pointy ears XD
Or keep Captain as Man only? I can't delete and start over with all the work I've put in XD
Hm... I do have a character slot left so I could perhaps make one more Captain if the option becomes available for elves, and I'm not sure I need any more minstrels anytime soon XD

Oh no, not making fun at all! Well, teasing a bit, but not about how much or little you play, rather about your use of the term "main" for something close to 40 toons (I just define "main character" a bit differently, is all). BTW, on the maths which you might have noticed I'm really good at! 19,000/495 = about 38 and a half, I just rounded to 40 to make all the follow-on head-scratching maths a bit easier. Hhehehe.
So...you actually have 38.4 main characters? Is that what you meant when you said I should redo?

Thanks for not making fun of me =)

Since I said "almost" 19000 you can remove the .4
38 characters isn't that many. In another game I used to play, I had over 100, but only 6 main character because there were like one quest per level, and you got 0.02 exp per kill if you did everything you could to max your exp, otherwise it would be less than 0.01 per kill D:

Oh, and about what is a main and what isn't: It's not about how one defines a main since your main characters will always be your mains, no matter how someone else defines their own mains I do spend quite a lot of time on my alts as well, and since I have plenty of free time, there's no problem All my mains get to do all quests and all deeds in all areas. I like things neat and complete for my mains my alts however... no cool horses for them! Well, ok, I got them a few, but there will be no deeding XD

[Vexendynamus]

How about this solution for those wishing to avoid Experience Point Weekends: The moment an Experience Point Weekend goes live, all Vault Keepers begin selling a time limited version of the Stone of the Tortoise, good for 24 hours. Upon Purchase, this Bound to Character Stone immediately starts counting down just like a Horse Whistle. Once in inventory, the player may equip and unequip the time limited Stone at will until it disintegrates. When the event ends, time limited Stones disappear from Vault Keeper shops.

A player could theoretically purchase dozens of time limited Stones on a single character, but since they all begin counting down upon purchase, the player gains no benefit from doing so. A player could theoretically purchase a time limited Stone one second before an Experience Point Weekend ends, but since it only affords 24 hours of halted experience, players have little incentive to bother.

In fact, 24 Hour Tortoise Stones may have merit as store items for those needing a one time experience point halt.

Would this not be a win for everyone?

Those who like the experience--not affected.
Those who hate the experience--very easy to circumvent.
Turbine--another small product to generate revenue.

Please note I have no use for such an item, but I grow weary of all the selfishness around here. We need to start helping one another and finding common ground.

Edit: Thank you for all the hard work on this thread, frickinmuck.

[Galuhad]

I came across these items the other day when scanning for missing items for Tulkas. Seems that the items were added to the game already, but either didn't work when tested, or Turbine changed their minds and pulled them from release. Anyhow, if there's a lot of interest in a temporary xp disabler then perhaps someone at Turbine can take another look at these.



IIDs: 1879210660 & 1879210661

[SouthernBelle0927]

I came across these items the other day when scanning for missing items for Tulkas. Seems that the items were added to the game already, but either didn't work when tested, or Turbine changed their minds and pulled them from release. Anyhow, if there's a lot of interest in a temporary xp disabler then perhaps someone at Turbine can take another look at these.



IIDs: 1879210660 & 1879210661

Ah! I love this community. Nice detective work, Galuhad. Those are even more generous time-wise than what I envisioned.

I know some people may be concerned that time spent developing something like a temporary XP disabler buff would take time away from developing content, and I sympathize with that. But there is also a benefit to those people who don't want the xp disabler themselves--more players online during those weekends. Why? This event drives some people away from the game during this time period because they don't want to level that rapidly, but also don't want to spend the 495 for the pocket item. Giving them the option to purchase (for a REASONABLE amount of TP) a temporary disabler might give those people a reason to be online.

More people online = more people available for raids, skirmishes, fellowships, etc. Yes?

[Mar-Evayave]

38 characters isn't that many. [...] Oh, and about what is a main and what isn't: [...] my alts however...

My only question...

If you have 38 MAINS... O.o ... how many ALTS do you have? *braces self for answer*

[Sapience]

I came across these items the other day when scanning for missing items for Tulkas. Seems that the items were added to the game already, but either didn't work when tested, or Turbine changed their minds and pulled them from release. Anyhow, if there's a lot of interest in a temporary xp disabler then perhaps someone at Turbine can take another look at these.



IIDs: 1879210660 & 1879210661

Those are the original versions of the XP Disabler. They were removed because players disliked them (loudly) and preferred to have a single item that isn't consumed instead of the consumable time limited options.

[Crell_1]

Those are the original versions of the XP Disabler. They were removed because players disliked them (loudly) and preferred to have a single item that isn't consumed instead of the consumable time limited options.

We disliked them greatly as priced and as intended for purchase, preferring a more permanent solution.

I wouldnt have any objection to a shorter 2-3day item being given away for players to use during 'welcome back' weekends, assuming the timer-code is still in place for the original items, hopefully all it would take is an adjustment of duration =)

[Beaniemooch]

Ah! I love this community. Nice detective work, Galuhad. Those are even more generous time-wise than what I envisioned.

I know some people may be concerned that time spent developing something like a temporary XP disabler buff would take time away from developing content, and I sympathize with that. But there is also a benefit to those people who don't want the xp disabler themselves--more players online during those weekends. Why? This event drives some people away from the game during this time period because they don't want to level that rapidly, but also don't want to spend the 495 for the pocket item. Giving them the option to purchase (for a REASONABLE amount of TP) a temporary disabler might give those people a reason to be online.

More people online = more people available for raids, skirmishes, fellowships, etc. Yes?

No. Most raids, skirmishes, fellowships are done at level cap which isn't affected by any kind of XP disabler.

[Silmelin]

My only question...

If you have 38 MAINS... O.o ... how many ALTS do you have? *braces self for answer*

Maybe around 5-6 or so I have too many mains to have time for more alts XD

[frickinmuck]

Please note I have no use for such an item, but I grow weary of all the selfishness around here. We need to start helping one another and finding common ground.

It's not selfish to simply disagree. 495 is not a high price for an XP disabler. I pay more for a per character war-steed hide or dye pack, and a comparable price even when those are on sale. It just seems to me that if XP disabling matters so much to someone, then why aren't they willing to pay for that feature? To me that seems selfish, because dev time needs to be supported financially.

I wanted more challenge in the game. I made a suggestion in the LotRO store forums for a nerf item that, when enabled, would scale certain aspects of the character to make landscape combat more difficult. If they took the time to create such an item, I would be willing to pay for it.

Now, if there exists an easy and financially viable way for them to add shorter term items, I'm sure they will if enough interest is expressed. But how on earth would that be a better option? Suppose the item was 100-150tp, which would seem a reasonable price for something like that - in line with other 'tome' type items. To me that seems a waste of money when you can have the permanent, reusable one for 495.

[Brandon_Blackbird]

I wouldn't use an XP disabler myself, but it seems like the item would be better received for the price if it were bind to account instead of to character and could be traded around as needed.

[LethalLethality]

I wouldn't use an XP disabler myself, but it seems like the item would be better received for the price if it were bind to account instead of to character and could be traded around as needed.

TBH, the thought of an exp disabler is stupid. It should halve exp gain from all sources, not totally disable it, as then you have to micromanage when to use it and when not to. I still believe it should be BtA instead of BtC.

[Brandon_Blackbird]

TBH, the thought of an exp disabler is stupid. It should halve exp gain from all sources, not totally disable it, as then you have to micromanage when to use it and when not to. I still believe it should be BtA instead of BtC.

How is the idea of disabling XP "stupid", and why is halving XP the solution?

[LethalLethality]

How is the idea of disabling XP "stupid", and why is halving XP the solution?

Because when you have a disabler, you have to constantly manage when and when not to use it, whereas with a halver, you could wear it 24/7/365 and consistently get half exp without having to worry about. As is, you finish about half on an area before you've outleveled it, and you either do the rest of it overleveled or go on to the next area.


My hunter was level 83 IIRC before she ever reached Rohan from doing everything in Isengard. My minstrel is already 86 and she still has all of the Sutcrofts to do at least. My guardian is 81 almost, and has just reached the Entwash Vale. If I was getting half exp, I'd be more likely to be at or under level. I wouldn't use a disabler because I don't want to manage when I get exp and when I don't. I don't want to accidentally do too many quests in an area to screw me over when I turned out to be underleveled for the next set of quests and had nothing else to do but farm skirms to get that level-up.

[Brandon_Blackbird]

Okay, that's a good use and explanation for halving, but what about the people who want to "wait for their friends to catch up", or remain at a certain level for certain content (the SoA kinship, for example)? Halving XP would not be a solution to their particular issues, whereas an outright XP disabler is what they need. You, however, call this "stupid"?

[LethalLethality]

Good point, I hadn't considered those options. Perhaps Turbine will create a separate exp halver, would be nice, but I still want it to be BtA so I don't have to shell out 3-4k TP for all my characters.

[SouthernBelle0927]

Okay, that's a good use and explanation for halving, but what about the people who want to "wait for their friends to catch up", or remain at a certain level for certain content (the SoA kinship, for example)? Halving XP would not be a solution to their particular issues, whereas an outright XP disabler is what they need. You, however, call this "stupid"?

This is exactly how I use mine. My questing partner and I keep each other updated on overall XP, and I just slot or unslot as necessary. Easy peasy lemon squeezy, as my nephew would say. It doesn't affect rep, LI XP, war-steed XP, or craft XP, just the overall XP gained from questing, crafting, etc.

As a result, I'm finally able to relax and enjoy the game without being over-leveled before I enter an area. It's rather nice to actually be on my guard when I enter an area again, rather than sauntering through with all the mobs so far below me they ignore me. I actually died in an instance twice the other day before I figured out the best way to get through it. I'd have been happier if the mobs had been on-level instead of red and orange...but the point is I am once again seeing quests in my tracker in some color other than blue or white and I'm having to work to get through them. Makes for a happy minstrel mistress.

That being said, I would much rather be able to pass the disabler to another pc on my account once I hit level cap.

[Vexendynamus]

It's not selfish to simply disagree. 495 is not a high price for an XP disabler. I pay more for a per character war-steed hide or dye pack, and a comparable price even when those are on sale. It just seems to me that if XP disabling matters so much to someone, then why aren't they willing to pay for that feature? To me that seems selfish, because dev time needs to be supported financially.

The Experience Point Disabler certainly offers a useful benefit to players seeking to experience the game on level or with more challenge. We could quibble about the mechanics, but it allows players to permanently suppress a system--experience point gain--that existed from day one and constitutes a fundamental game element. I am not speaking of that.

In the case of Experience Point Weekends, the game developers temporarily change the game environment to benefit some while adversely affecting others. In other words, at the whim of the developers, some number of people who were playing the game as desired temporarily cannot while others benefit. You are asking adversely affected players, some number of whom paid to play this game in the normal mode of operation, to pay to disable the temporary change. This strikes me as inherently unfair.

How would you feel about your 495TP horse cosmetic if it only benefited you on Experience Point Weekends?

I wanted more challenge in the game. I made a suggestion in the LotRO store forums for a nerf item that, when enabled, would scale certain aspects of the character to make landscape combat more difficult. If they took the time to create such an item, I would be willing to pay for it.

Game difficulty is what it is for everyone. Your proposed store item would permanently modify that system for your personal benefit. Now, let us suppose your Difficulty Enhancer existed for 495TPs. Let us also suppose Turbine managers decided to hold a Nurf the Challenge Weekend, such that the only way to get back to baseline challenge level was to buy a Difficulty Enhancer. How would you feel about that?

Now, if there exists an easy and financially viable way for them to add shorter term items, I'm sure they will if enough interest is expressed. But how on earth would that be a better option? Suppose the item was 100-150tp, which would seem a reasonable price for something like that - in line with other 'tome' type items. To me that seems a waste of money when you can have the permanent, reusable one for 495.

I never comment upon the difficulty of suggestions, writing, "this would be easy!', or, "this would be too hard!". Only the responsible people at Turbine may intelligently make such assessments. Some number of players, allowed to choose between a 24 hour Disabler for 95TPs and a permanent disabler for 495TPs, would pick the former. I have no means to assess that number. Some people find it more economical to buy and some to rent.

If a 24 hour Disabler existed, and they were handed out free during Experience Point Weekends, the major complaint against Experience Point Weekends would evaporate. The product would generate some amount or revenue at other times. I can only offer the suggestion.

Those are the original versions of the XP Disabler. They were removed because players disliked them (loudly) and preferred to have a single item that isn't consumed instead of the consumable time limited options.

Yes, and given the choice between rental OR ownership, players made the correct decision. However, real world market forces favor the existence of rental AND ownership options. I recall a company named Turbine offering Premium AND VIP...